WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:14.560 This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3,941 from Monday 11 September 2023. 00:14.560 --> 00:19.480 Today's show is entitled, Interview with Yosef Kursner. 00:19.480 --> 00:24.240 It is hosted by operator and is about 59 minutes long. 00:24.240 --> 00:27.000 It carries an explicit flag. 00:27.000 --> 00:43.560 The summary is Interview with Yosef Kursner. 00:43.560 --> 00:46.280 I'm here with Yosef. 00:46.280 --> 00:55.440 I worked with you at KFMG, so I guess if you want to tell a story how we met or how we 00:55.440 --> 00:58.440 know each other. 00:58.440 --> 01:05.200 We know each other from KFMG, we used to work together. 01:05.200 --> 01:14.200 Rob was on a nutrition testing team and our group that in which we did penetration tests, 01:14.200 --> 01:20.200 I don't like how our team, it's done so much of a team, not really. 01:20.200 --> 01:28.000 So with that, our first time together was when we were both told to go to California 01:28.000 --> 01:34.880 to do a Pentez and turned out to, and then spent about a week doing the test. 01:34.880 --> 01:42.800 It was my first project at KKMG, I had been hired about two months before and Rob did 01:42.800 --> 01:43.800 muscle work. 01:43.800 --> 01:44.800 I watched him do it. 01:44.800 --> 01:50.160 He helped me do something, he told me to do a few small things and the rest was history. 01:50.160 --> 01:58.600 I just wanted to like this so much, despite a few interesting hijinks that I went back 01:58.600 --> 02:04.880 there later on and drank a much caffeine. 02:04.880 --> 02:06.720 Okay, so was that one? 02:06.720 --> 02:10.240 Was that the one where I screwed up and locked out all the accounts? 02:10.240 --> 02:11.240 Yes. 02:11.240 --> 02:14.800 Okay, that was my fault, but I made you hit it, but that's what made it hilarious. 02:14.800 --> 02:16.800 That's what it looks like. 02:17.440 --> 02:23.440 But the guy talked it well, he was like, oh, that's interesting, he can detox the entire, 02:23.440 --> 02:26.040 the entire domain, I'm not getting everybody out. 02:26.040 --> 02:32.720 Which is actually since the payment provider I went at, the guy, I started with another 02:32.720 --> 02:36.800 guy and he did the same thing, so I made a power cell script, you just run the power 02:36.800 --> 02:40.680 cell script and it'll unlike all the domain accounts. 02:40.680 --> 02:45.440 It's like a fire, a fire hose, panic button, he just run it and run it as a domain 02:45.680 --> 02:50.960 user and it'll reset all the accounts because that clown locked everybody out the same way. 02:52.960 --> 02:57.920 Yeah, he was very cool about it and definitely one of the more fun stories that I got to tell 02:57.920 --> 03:00.800 around much later on. 03:01.600 --> 03:04.560 They all started playing together after a few years to end. 03:04.560 --> 03:05.280 Thank you. 03:05.280 --> 03:10.480 For me, it was a good one because it was the first one and it was a good environment to start 03:10.560 --> 03:15.600 off with because back then, mostly it didn't run more than really do vulnerability management. 03:15.600 --> 03:17.680 They didn't really run vulnerability scanners. 03:17.680 --> 03:21.520 So you can get very far, which is running tenable against the computer network, 03:21.520 --> 03:25.440 against just running a map and seeing what's out there, you really could get very far now. 03:26.080 --> 03:31.360 I noticed this was around 2017, 2018, that more and more places were doing vulnerability 03:31.360 --> 03:35.920 management to their own and it was just recently harder harder to do just from tenable. 03:36.240 --> 03:42.080 And then, part of the least, I really pivoted away from knowing pan testing is because it was 03:42.960 --> 03:46.240 like this, and I said the point to do pan testing like that. 03:46.960 --> 03:52.160 Yeah, if nobody actually fixes anything, I mean, there was a river case and I think I did a 03:52.160 --> 03:59.200 school, like a technical school that ended up, they ended up fixing everything, 04:00.400 --> 04:04.800 which was cool and they put some other controls in place that blocks some of the stuff I was 04:04.800 --> 04:07.760 doing. So it's nice to see that everyone was talking about it. 04:07.760 --> 04:12.080 It would in general, it's pretty much, you find the same vulnerability that you found last time in the 04:13.680 --> 04:16.720 remote is a little bit different. I know a couple of guys that do the remote stuff. 04:17.680 --> 04:22.320 They had to do like, they could do like passwords for airing and the fishing thing and trying to 04:22.320 --> 04:24.320 get that to it, and that's a little bit more difficult. 04:25.120 --> 04:30.800 Yeah, fishing, especially, but I think especially at KVMG, the team wasn't super 04:30.800 --> 04:35.680 well-organized. Since we're on a podcast, I'm not going to go right about things that happened 04:35.680 --> 04:40.320 years ago, but it did mean that functional we had to set up our own fishing infrastructure 04:40.320 --> 04:42.720 every single time for each engagement, which kind of happened to us. 04:43.520 --> 04:47.360 Yeah, very happy we're all ready to go. You have your domains, having someone dedicated 04:47.360 --> 04:55.440 for that kind of stuff, and it wasn't, it was just very difficult to do that by myself as part of 04:55.440 --> 05:07.520 the team. Yeah, you are the team. I had like a portable version of, was that the Fox Fox email client 05:07.520 --> 05:14.160 or whatever, Mozilla, email client with some scripts. Yeah, it was called Fox something, Mozilla, 05:14.160 --> 05:18.800 something, Mozilla's email client, and you could install plugins for doing bulk email, 05:19.200 --> 05:23.360 and you could put unique identifiers in each one. You could tell who clicked what, when you can 05:23.440 --> 05:27.520 stop. So I would do that, but I like you said every time, I'd have to set it all up, 05:27.520 --> 05:32.560 and out of the set of the domain, them keys and SPF records and stuff of whatever don't 05:32.560 --> 05:36.400 me, and I was setting up, and I try to get it as kosher as I possibly could. 05:36.400 --> 05:47.440 Yeah, it's been a while since I remember, at one point I did get GoFish working very wonderfully, 05:47.440 --> 05:52.480 and totally forgot to write what I did in a tutorial that would have been handy. 05:52.640 --> 05:57.120 Yeah, I usually do videos, or just a bunch of copy and paste, or I'll make the whole thing 05:57.120 --> 05:59.760 a script, so that way I just run the script, and if it doesn't work, I'll be like, 05:59.760 --> 06:05.360 I want part of the script is broken. So the next thing I've got is kind of like more like background, 06:06.000 --> 06:13.840 like, where did you grow up, your hometown? Like, how did you, how did what made you, 06:13.840 --> 06:17.440 what, what were your parents like, and how did they, did you had the same kind of 06:18.400 --> 06:22.000 inclinations when you were kids? Like, did you, did you kind of take stuff apart and messed 06:22.000 --> 06:30.000 with things? Because I know you've, you've done the, you do the gardening stuff, and you have a, 06:30.000 --> 06:34.480 you have a told me some crazy stories about that. So like, where did that all start, like, how 06:34.480 --> 06:39.680 did your parents all weirded out about it? Or, um, well, let's see, so I grow up, I'm from Houston, 06:39.680 --> 06:45.440 like, girlfriend Houston, and um, I only moved to New York actually a year ago. 06:45.440 --> 06:54.800 Um, I, growing up, uh, I was, I had a computer, um, since I was about 13, it was a rinky deep 06:54.800 --> 07:00.960 thing with 256 megabytes of RAM, which they got used somewhere. Uh, and that's why I spent way too 07:00.960 --> 07:06.240 much time optimizing every single process on the computer to maximize the amount of, uh, 07:06.240 --> 07:10.720 minimize the amount of RAM that each process used, and like, watching each one like a hawk. 07:11.680 --> 07:17.600 Um, sometime in high school, my dad was, uh, gotten interested in learning how to hack. Of course, 07:19.280 --> 07:26.240 being a software developer, he, he found, uh, his, like, the path to hacking was maybe a little 07:26.240 --> 07:31.680 tricky because that required figuring out a good source of, of words, learn things. He found that 07:31.680 --> 07:38.560 he decided to learn the CH, uh, and get the CH certification, uh, and like, you should do too, 07:38.640 --> 07:47.840 and so that's how I found myself, um, learning about the time, um, backtrack, uh, when I was in 07:47.840 --> 07:56.160 the technical grade, and loading up on my, um, uh, labs, uh, on my school's lab, getting caught running 07:56.160 --> 08:05.360 that, uh, installing grant theft.o, a free virtual grant theft.o3 on the A there. Um, 08:05.920 --> 08:10.960 and there are, unlike a student's network partition, very limited space, that every person got 08:10.960 --> 08:16.080 there like rolling profile partition. Yes, I was called out there and just spent most of a whole year, 08:16.640 --> 08:22.640 uh, procrastinating online AP government is by playing grant theft.o3, uh, instead of actually 08:22.640 --> 08:29.600 doing my work in a lab class. So that was fun. Um, it, uh, I never, I didn't go very far to the CH course 08:29.600 --> 08:34.240 because even at the time, I felt like it was a little outdated, and there was, it was very, 08:34.240 --> 08:39.920 as it is very focused on the kind of like CSP on memorizing, kind of a spiritual never ever 08:39.920 --> 08:46.400 using practice. Um, it's very similar. It's, it's basically like a course of the hacking exposed, 08:47.760 --> 08:54.800 um, network for 10 years. And that's, that's already 10 years ago. So, uh, it was 08:54.800 --> 08:59.440 continuing to imagine doing a kind of be so a super feel very, very, very updated. And that's how I 08:59.520 --> 09:08.880 started, I did some, uh, obscure hacking, uh, various things on my, uh, people soft, on my colleges, 09:08.880 --> 09:14.640 people soft network, uh, that was fun, random explorations. Basically, I was hanging out on a online 09:14.640 --> 09:20.000 page that showed a student's waiting in line for something and somehow timed out and dropped me into 09:20.000 --> 09:27.840 authenticated session of, uh, the people soft back end, which allowed me to just spend a ton of 09:27.840 --> 09:35.200 time and skating around me and everything in their pieces. I was very fun. Um, I think I've 09:35.200 --> 09:39.840 made you a pressed random combination on the waiting screen that it was really fun. I reported it 09:39.840 --> 09:47.120 honestly and never heard back. Um, all right. And then I think my parents in terms of the computer 09:47.120 --> 09:54.320 stuff, the hacking stuff, um, it was, I studied biotech and college, uh, and then, uh, didn't 09:55.280 --> 10:00.480 put any importance into the, uh, any emphasis on the importance of finding a job. I submitted 10:00.480 --> 10:05.360 resume, uh, at a career fair, where basically no one was hiring a room was there for show, 10:05.360 --> 10:10.320 including like these pipes of like industrial stuff. It was just for show. Um, no one was actually 10:10.320 --> 10:16.320 hiring, but there was one company in Cold Boyhead security that was, uh, some friends I had, uh, 10:16.320 --> 10:21.760 those doing a project with encouraged me to apply. I applied. I got in the exact same thing, 10:21.760 --> 10:26.080 like, okay, fine. No more biotech. I'm sick and tired of that. I don't want to work in a lab. 10:26.080 --> 10:31.200 I don't want to, uh, be a lab rat in some windowless room, doing petheading or violence medics. Yeah, 10:31.200 --> 10:37.120 right. So I opted to just do that. It may be coming back to college in a year. And that was 10:37.760 --> 10:45.520 ten years ago. Yeah. That was that. So you started out in doing like, fun biology stuff, 10:45.520 --> 10:49.920 where you, what you thought was going to be fun biology stuff, and then you, I mean, it was supposed 10:49.920 --> 10:55.360 to be fun biology stuff. And then turn out to be like, I can't really, I'm not good at memorizing books, 10:55.360 --> 11:00.400 which is, uh, did no to operation when you're doing a biotech degree, where it's like a half 11:00.400 --> 11:05.840 med students and have, you know, all pre-med students. So psychology, chemistry, organic chemistry, 11:06.960 --> 11:10.960 various, uh, and a little bit of like, I thought it was going to be a lot more computer stuff 11:10.960 --> 11:14.880 and turned out that because there's very little interest at least at that university. 11:14.880 --> 11:18.960 Everyone wanted to manufacture going to like drug manufacturing or drug, or like, um, 11:19.920 --> 11:25.840 like a pharmaceutical stuff. And like, one of the person out of in four years wanted to do, 11:25.840 --> 11:30.080 what's called bound from addicts, which is using computers and mostly R and statistical 11:30.080 --> 11:36.080 languages to, and of course, CNC, what's plus to analyze biological data of various sorts. 11:36.080 --> 11:40.000 Or, uh, there's a public area talking about the R, the R stuff. Yeah. 11:40.000 --> 11:44.800 And then, uh, but unfortunately all that kind of stuff requires either masters of PhD, and I wasn't 11:45.360 --> 11:49.040 interested in that kind of stuff. That's that's hard. That's hard work. 11:49.040 --> 11:56.640 If you had had the brain, yeah. Yeah, we, we had some people at the, I did support for Carl Zeiss, 11:56.640 --> 12:00.560 and we had some, I had got a chance to talk to some of the people that worked on the 12:01.760 --> 12:06.400 microscopes and stuff. And they were doing the people they would work with, but talked about 12:06.400 --> 12:12.160 R and doing R stuff. And like, I kind of wish sometimes I was a data analyst guy where I could do 12:12.160 --> 12:17.680 like cool stuff like that, where, I mean, I'm like analyzing data and taking, you know, taking 12:17.680 --> 12:22.320 two sets of data and merging them together and like kind of doing the data science part, 12:22.320 --> 12:27.520 but I'll do it once, and then once I do that, it's like, uh, okay, you, I've given you the 12:27.520 --> 12:31.520 tool you go figured out. I'm not going to support you within the older hand, and whatever, 12:31.520 --> 12:35.120 it's like, that's what ends up happening because you had to hold it revised hand through it. 12:35.120 --> 12:39.600 Pretty much, uh, didn't have much hope for, um, I mean, you did plenty of data analysis, 12:39.600 --> 12:45.200 lots of data to deal with. A lot of all sorts of unusual file formats, a lot of professors that 12:45.200 --> 12:50.240 write a project or have the lab guy write a project for them, and then never use it again, 12:50.240 --> 12:56.320 so it's a lot of unsupported code, um, and yes, a lot of data analysis, whichever you said. 12:56.320 --> 13:03.600 Um, but, and I even have a book similar on paramedics, but once I was dated, once my data 13:03.600 --> 13:08.320 day was infosec, or at the time hiding websites with what had security, which is still a thing, 13:09.200 --> 13:17.520 um, believe it or not, um, they're just wasn't, I lost any interest in the pursuing a 13:17.520 --> 13:26.320 master's day. Yeah, too much that book learned. So, that book learning I was very much on hands-on, 13:26.320 --> 13:33.520 and I, I guess, I just enjoyed booking. Well, there's, uh, there's the overall sort of 13:33.520 --> 13:39.600 you can start making, start making, uh, and, uh, for any of you. Uh, if we start talking about, um, 13:39.600 --> 13:44.560 if we start talking about stimulates and drugs, uh, this, this podcast will, uh, be 13:44.560 --> 13:51.280 uncompletely unreleasable. So, I'm, I'm not absolutely not kidding. So, um, have you seen the, 13:51.280 --> 13:58.800 there's a, like, a band commercial for the movie Spun, and, um, the actor he plays the cook, 13:59.280 --> 14:03.920 and, like, at one point, time, his girlfriend's dog is like green, got gets dogged, like, 14:03.920 --> 14:07.040 died, well, I don't know if it's, it's probably not a thing, but his dog gets died green, 14:07.040 --> 14:12.800 because whatever chemicals and drugs he's making in this little shack. But yeah, he does, like, a cooking show, 14:12.800 --> 14:17.600 what it's, like, he's like cooking method, whatever, and, like, he's got, like, a buck crack and 14:17.600 --> 14:23.840 went around the author, remember to send it to you, but no, it's a classic, it's fun. It's a problem 14:23.840 --> 14:27.920 with, uh, with, with math is, is not only is there a shortage, but it doesn't have to be 14:28.000 --> 14:34.160 just because actually, if I think the shortage is really due to, um, uh, uh, like, not enough 14:34.160 --> 14:39.280 competitor, it's kind of too full. There's not enough, it, the shortage is because there's not enough 14:39.280 --> 14:44.800 producers of it. Well, yeah, more importantly, um, there's, like, one producer and that's it, 14:44.800 --> 14:51.680 which is ties more into, um, vertical, um, I, or I guess, of course, I'm sorry, 14:51.760 --> 14:57.600 horizontal, um, conglomeration and total sorts of monopolies and things like that. 14:57.600 --> 15:00.240 These days a lot of adder-all that you can actually find on the streets, 15:00.240 --> 15:04.080 should you actually try to do that, is cut with what's known as Fetterman sulfate, 15:04.080 --> 15:11.200 which is, or that, or, um, other, other, similar analogs, like, um, like, 15:11.200 --> 15:17.280 ME, T and P, or something like that. I happen to have dabble, have picked up an interest in, uh, 15:17.360 --> 15:22.560 research chemicals, uh, over the last five years, so I have some knowledge of that. And my chemistry 15:22.560 --> 15:27.200 knowledge comes in handy. Well, you know, that's why it's like, because it's, it's, it's, it's, 15:27.200 --> 15:31.200 it's so annoying to have to go to the pharmacy. I have to go to the doctor, get the, get the 15:31.200 --> 15:34.560 prescription, and then I had to remember to go to the doctor, get the prescription, and then I 15:34.560 --> 15:38.880 had to remember to go to the pharmacy and drop it off. And then I had to remember to go to the 15:38.880 --> 15:43.280 pharmacy and pick it back up. And then I had to remember the date that I picked it up, not the 15:43.280 --> 15:47.920 date that it was filled, that I dropped, dropped the prescription off, but the date, I actually picked it 15:47.920 --> 15:53.200 up. They go by the date you pick it up and not by the date you actually filled it. So it's like, 15:53.200 --> 15:58.560 I've got this weird convoluted thing where like, I have repeating, I set the date out, and then I put 15:58.560 --> 16:03.600 the date on the actual event on the calendar, and then I have it repeat every single day with the 16:03.600 --> 16:10.320 timestamp with the date stamp. So I know, oh, on 226, that's when I was supposed to get my meds, 16:10.400 --> 16:15.680 but because it was a little on vacation or had to work or whatever, you know, now I'm in three 16:15.680 --> 16:20.400 weeks behind, and you know, basically I'm out. So I actually ran out for the first time in like, 16:21.280 --> 16:25.600 I don't know, forever, like three years. And then they're like, oh, there's a shortage. 16:25.600 --> 16:30.320 And I was like, what? And so I had to, you know, go drive like 30 minutes to a different store to get, 16:30.960 --> 16:36.480 to get, to get my meds. But yeah, I was like, yeah, I'll just make them. And then a friend 16:36.480 --> 16:41.200 came on a Kathy's friends is like, she says, oh, you know, I'll buy some. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 16:41.200 --> 16:44.880 I start selling drugs. That's when you get in trouble. Nobody got in trouble for giving away drugs, 16:44.880 --> 16:51.040 but you start selling drugs. They get all upset. But yeah, I know, and I've probably, no, I know, 16:51.040 --> 16:56.000 just to get in trouble. And, but yeah, I can't do that. You know, I got kids and responsibilities, right? 16:56.560 --> 17:00.640 Yeah, I don't have kids. I don't have to worry about the responsibilities, which is why I know a 17:00.640 --> 17:08.560 little bit more about drug selling than being most people are willing to be told about or not 17:08.560 --> 17:14.800 necessarily drug selling, but just the drug market in general. Yeah. That's a nice, yeah, the 17:14.800 --> 17:20.000 most, the dark net has gone, I'd say, a couple of things have changed in the, 17:22.160 --> 17:25.920 alternative chemical acquisition process recently, most of all, 17:26.800 --> 17:32.000 tour has gotten, the tour network has suffered a bunch of attacks. It's gotten really slow at times. 17:32.960 --> 17:39.440 It's always changing plus Bitcoin is, well, it's Bitcoin. We all know what the problem with Bitcoin is. 17:39.440 --> 17:42.800 If it's not getting regulated, someone is running off through money. So, 17:44.240 --> 17:51.040 yes, I never really understood the whole, like, the whole thing of the, like, Bitcoin exchanges. 17:51.040 --> 17:55.040 And then people were like, oh, the exchange got popped. And now my Bitcoin's gone. I was like, 17:55.120 --> 18:00.640 well, that's the whole point of Bitcoin is to not, like, put it in a bank. Like, what? Why? I don't 18:00.640 --> 18:05.360 understand why people are using Bitcoin? Like, now it's all, like you said, they have, like, a 18:05.360 --> 18:12.560 black list of like Bitcoin IDs. So, you could just be like, okay, well, now this, this Bitcoin 18:12.560 --> 18:17.680 ID is, I guess, trashed. And it's labeled as whatever, and none of the exchanges will honor it. 18:17.680 --> 18:22.880 So, it's like you said, it's starting to get all regulated and stuff, which is just bound to happen 18:23.200 --> 18:27.200 with any kind of, yeah, they go over anything with a value or anything that's good, 18:27.200 --> 18:30.480 eventually gets ruined by the government or appropriation, right? 18:31.840 --> 18:37.440 Yeah, corporations. Or, it, it, it got regulated and what else happened. It, I mean, 18:38.480 --> 18:43.360 the whole idea of decentralized currency went out the window just as soon as people realized that they 18:43.360 --> 18:49.760 could make absurd amounts of money if they buy in a hotel. I think that the ethos of Bitcoin 18:49.840 --> 18:58.000 has been lost, lost a long time ago. Oh, yeah. And so, now I think that when it comes to transactions, 18:58.000 --> 19:03.280 people recently have been using Monero because it's less traceable. And because you can literally, 19:04.800 --> 19:08.720 I don't know, exactly why I guess it's also because Bitcoin transaction fees and transaction 19:08.720 --> 19:16.720 times are really, really, really long have been really skyrocketing recently. The time, 19:16.720 --> 19:22.400 like, especially the transaction time because what happens is when there's a lot of, if you're, 19:22.400 --> 19:28.160 if you're, if you set the fee too low, you're at the party, we'll be really low. And then there's 19:28.160 --> 19:32.400 all sorts of weird backups. And before you know it, you're waiting a day and a half for your 19:32.400 --> 19:38.240 transaction to go through and paying like 10% of the fee just to get it through because you've 19:38.320 --> 19:44.000 had to set a higher network fee for transactions to go through and get like every year on what was 19:44.000 --> 19:51.200 the point. Yeah, the, I ran, I ran the local for a while, just to pay for like, 19:51.840 --> 20:02.080 in ZB, in ZB database, in ZB services, which is like, using that, like, if you've ever heard 20:02.080 --> 20:08.640 in ZB stuff, it's like a, it's like a, use net, it's like, where you get like old school back in the 20:08.640 --> 20:13.920 day, it was like, we're in, you know, old dot binaries, dot whatever. And every service provider would 20:13.920 --> 20:19.280 give you access to use net and you could download games and movies and TVs and porn and everything. 20:19.280 --> 20:24.640 And at some point times, somebody came up with in ZB where it was like a index of all that stuff. 20:24.640 --> 20:29.280 So somebody would crawl all of use net, well, the important part of these that, and then create 20:29.280 --> 20:34.560 these pointers that would tell you where to download shit. So that's where, in ZB came about. And then 20:36.800 --> 20:45.200 like, you had like three major indexers, this was like around 2016, 17, 18. And there's like three 20:45.200 --> 20:51.040 big ones and they shut one of them down that RIA, whoever shut one of them down. And I was like, 20:51.040 --> 20:56.400 oh, that's not good. And then like the second one got shut down. I was like, oh, that's not good. 20:56.400 --> 21:01.440 And then by the time the third one shut down is like a hydra, because you know, the stristand effect. 21:01.440 --> 21:07.360 So what happened is I ran my own use net index indexer. So I was scraping all of these net 21:08.080 --> 21:13.600 and creating my own ZB indexers. So instead of, you know, this is like a three-headed hydra. 21:13.600 --> 21:18.400 And they cut two of the heads off. And then like 10,000 heads popped off in this place. 21:18.400 --> 21:23.520 They were all shitty, but they still got the job done. But for a while there, for like two years, 21:23.520 --> 21:28.640 it was like that. Like you would get spam and like you would get everything, but like the last 21:28.640 --> 21:33.760 file on something, and it would never really work. But yeah, that was part of the whole, the whole 21:33.760 --> 21:39.520 use net, use net and ZB stuff. And I would use that to pay for, I would use Bitcoin to pay for 21:39.520 --> 21:47.280 to use the indexers. Which they all think we're, we're non Bitcoin currency now. But yeah, 21:47.360 --> 21:52.080 I don't know if there's the pay for that stuff. Especially when you're like, if you want to 21:52.080 --> 22:01.600 actually practice good offset, then there's a lot of stuff that either, I don't know or 22:01.600 --> 22:05.920 normally tells you because it's also secretive. So it's going to work about word of mouth. 22:08.240 --> 22:15.120 But generally I found that most people have no idea what offset is. And even when it would benefit 22:15.200 --> 22:20.000 them, and it's actually kind of surprising when there are people who, when I meet people who 22:20.000 --> 22:24.720 could really benefit from some knowledge of offset, and just nothing. Or like, or you tell them 22:24.720 --> 22:29.520 that you need to order a session such a way. And that's, and they're like, two complicated computers 22:29.520 --> 22:33.600 to complicated. I'm like, I'm like, I'm sorry. Yeah. That's, and then, and then in the 22:33.600 --> 22:38.960 New Year's later, you get pissed because, you know, you put your Yahoo email on a forum somewhere 22:39.040 --> 22:44.080 was considered something. But I mean, when you look at it, when you're trying to create a persona, 22:44.080 --> 22:50.400 like, or some alternate persona, it's easy to make fun of someone who messes up with like one 22:50.400 --> 22:58.080 email, but thank you. Yeah. Is there, like, what is it, the grug on offset stuff? 22:59.440 --> 23:06.240 When you're trying to create a persona, it's very easy to mess up because at a certain point, 23:06.240 --> 23:12.400 unless you do a really good job of generating fake use names for everything at a certain point, 23:12.400 --> 23:20.160 there will be a total of results. And all it takes is the hunt to look closely at you and figure 23:20.160 --> 23:26.880 out what's what's there. It's tricky. And of course, people get popped. The key is not to do 23:26.880 --> 23:31.680 the extremely stupid things, like, not to signal or something like that. 23:31.680 --> 23:39.040 Yeah. I had a, I had a pro-tron mail account that I set up for like an honestly, 23:39.040 --> 23:43.760 an honestly disclosing vulnerabilities and stuff I found. So I'd be somewhere, wherever, 23:43.760 --> 23:50.640 doing something, or I'd find a website, or whatever, and I would, an honestly disclosed something, 23:51.520 --> 23:57.600 I would use that email for it. It took me a while just to set that up because some of them 23:57.600 --> 24:03.280 wanted SMS, like verification. So I had to find a place to create like, free SMS. And that was, 24:03.280 --> 24:09.040 like, a pain in the butt. And now everything like that is everything once SMS. And then if you 24:09.040 --> 24:13.920 try to use a void number for SMS, it's like, oh, you can't use void for this. You have to have 24:13.920 --> 24:19.280 a real DID and it's like, oh my god. So I'm, I think, God, I don't have to do any of that stuff. 24:20.000 --> 24:23.920 I haven't checked my pro-tron. That's sure it's all been wiped out. But I haven't checked that 24:23.920 --> 24:28.960 stuff in a long time because I haven't done any public disclosure stuff. But yeah, that's it's 24:28.960 --> 24:33.840 uh, that's it. Yeah, I'm not trying to do that stuff now. So it back then, it feels like it was so 24:33.840 --> 24:39.520 much easier to do stuff. And now everything is hard. And it's like, you gotta like do all kinds of 24:39.520 --> 24:46.080 crazy stuff and actually try and like, I feel like it was a lot easier. Yeah, it is. When 24:46.080 --> 24:50.960 everyone does SMS, like you say, everyone does, you can be connected back to your 24:50.960 --> 24:57.360 disclosing a persona very easily. And it's just, and it's, um, it's really not worth it. 24:57.360 --> 25:04.400 Um, back back in 2019, I had the whole project when I was doing, um, uh, uh, uh, un- un- unrelated 25:04.400 --> 25:09.600 note. I'm not doing as much personal hacking as much as I used to because not more my interest 25:09.920 --> 25:15.360 related to, um, um, you can look on my website. I've finally reached that before thing. 25:15.360 --> 25:20.160 Um, it's just, it's just, it's an opportunity. I'll put it. Yeah, that yellsetcursner.com. 25:20.800 --> 25:24.960 I mean, it's all media wiki. Wanted to write all about the deo jeans and things like that. 25:25.760 --> 25:31.360 Um, um, uh, really, really like it. It was interesting, uh, when I first started 25:31.360 --> 25:36.080 keeping, she might personal interest in my professional interests combined and, uh, the 25:36.080 --> 25:41.520 coincided now. So, like I can, it's, it's definitely like the word, the move to the cloud has 25:41.520 --> 25:47.760 made it much harder. Like I can't just, uh, install a local version of class, you know, the 25:47.760 --> 25:52.720 norm is probably a fake vulnerability, but I just can't around with that. Like if it's, it's a 25:52.720 --> 25:58.480 much hard. It's, uh, like I even thought about setting up back when I had a, um, um, nice big 25:58.480 --> 26:03.760 VM environment on my whole network to just set up a staging and a product environment, just that 26:03.840 --> 26:07.520 alone would have been really difficult, especially if I'm just doing it myself. So I never 26:07.520 --> 26:13.520 bothered to do that. Um, like I can't just spin up a local instance of service now, not for you. 26:14.240 --> 26:20.720 So it's a lot harder to experiment. Yeah, or learn new things on, on that stuff. Nor, nor 26:20.720 --> 26:24.720 those. They're not the hacking really. At that point, it's, it's, it's set up, if anything, 26:25.120 --> 26:32.080 rather than it is hacking. So, um, yeah, you get these commercial tools that cost, you know, millions 26:32.160 --> 26:36.480 of dollars. And while you're in there all, then the poking around, I'm like, let me poke around 26:36.480 --> 26:40.080 while I'm in here, because I'm not going to have the opportunity to figure this out. But yeah, 26:40.080 --> 26:44.880 to your point, I don't, I don't get a whole lot of time to poke around with stuff. Um, I've got 26:44.880 --> 26:51.040 like a bounty board for work that I just, if I see something weird, I like, then I just bang on the 26:51.040 --> 26:54.720 keyboard and then I put it on the bounty board. And there's, I haven't put stuff on the bounty board 26:54.720 --> 26:59.600 in like a year, but there's like tons of stuff on there for work that's like, I'll run across 26:59.760 --> 27:05.360 some weird site or some weird idea or whatever it is. I'll put it on the bounty board, and of course, 27:05.360 --> 27:10.160 I never have enough time to do poke around with stuff, because there's always something else. 27:10.160 --> 27:16.160 But yeah, we're always doing something else. Um, let's see, see if I find some, 27:16.160 --> 27:27.280 some good, select some good questions. Um, let's see, what are you not very good at? 27:30.560 --> 27:34.160 Like, it's like interview questions. I'm helping you with your interview questions. 27:34.160 --> 27:39.280 Yeah, is this, is this like, uh, is it a work? Things I'm not very good at work related? 27:39.280 --> 27:46.240 One of those is actually finishing what I started. I'm there like, my world is literally 27:46.240 --> 27:53.600 like half, half finished, half begun projects. Yep. Um, everything 80 to past. In the past, 27:53.600 --> 27:59.040 it used to be projects that were say 80% of the way there, and the extra 20% would have been 27:59.040 --> 28:03.040 some documentation that could be really useful. Should I, for example, abandon it for five 28:03.040 --> 28:07.600 years, and then get back to it later on. I want to do something. Now it's, now it's 28:07.600 --> 28:13.200 much harder. Sometimes I have ideas, I'll study for, I'll read about them for about 28:13.200 --> 28:17.280 it. We, uh, approximately two weeks, and then I move on. It's a two weeks, I can 28:17.280 --> 28:21.600 assess with everything for like, for two weeks to like, three months, two months, and then 28:21.680 --> 28:30.160 I'm, I'm, I'm like, I had a problem with like the, the AI art stuff. Yeah, I trained like models 28:30.160 --> 28:35.120 of my wife and myself, and like, I was obsessed for a while, so I was like, I had to, like, 28:35.120 --> 28:41.680 call it, because it became like, it, like, all of my spare time. So, um, I think we're, 28:41.680 --> 28:49.120 we're, we're, let's see. So, what else do I promise with? Um, I can, sometimes I, let's say I'm working 28:49.120 --> 28:53.600 in a team. I will forget that I will, I have responsibilities to other people, and I'll do 28:53.600 --> 28:57.360 a, I'll just sort of procrastinate without realizing that it affects other people. 28:57.360 --> 29:03.680 This is a more of a work related question. I'm, um, I'm not super good at recognizing 29:03.680 --> 29:10.160 when, um, uh, an emergency at work is really an emergency, because I'm always like, especially if 29:10.160 --> 29:15.360 this was especially a problem as a consultant, because, um, my managers would be freaking out 29:15.360 --> 29:21.120 about the client sitting, having a slightly changed tone of voice. I'm like, what's the big deal? 29:21.120 --> 29:26.640 The, no problems. Every single time, on almost every single project I had, they would tell me, 29:26.640 --> 29:31.920 oh, this is a much bigger deal. The client is very mad. I'm like, I think, yeah, what? Did I miss 29:31.920 --> 29:37.120 something critical? They were yelling at me at least. Yeah, fine. It's like, these subtle hints that 29:37.120 --> 29:42.720 you can't, you can't pick up. I'll listen to a comedian. Um, I don't remember what her name was, 29:42.720 --> 29:48.160 but, um, she was talking about, she's like, I think she's autistic or whatever on the spectrum. 29:48.160 --> 29:54.560 And she was talking about her spouse was like, her interpreter. So she would, they would go to an event 29:54.560 --> 29:59.440 or something, and she was her, her, she's her agent or whatever. So they go to event, and then they come 29:59.440 --> 30:04.880 back and they, you know, she would say what happened. And then her spouse would be like, what, where 30:04.880 --> 30:11.280 the fuck were you? Like, this is, that is not what happened. You completely don't know what 30:11.360 --> 30:15.680 happened. Like, this is what actually happened. So yeah, some of that gets lost in translation 30:15.680 --> 30:23.360 for me, too. Like, people will get upset and, um, I'll, you know, either, usually under, under prey, 30:23.360 --> 30:27.680 what they're, they're stressing or going having a hard time about. It's like, it's, it's not a problem. 30:27.680 --> 30:33.440 Don't freak out. Yeah, I'm very, very relaxed. And that, that means that sometimes when someone 30:33.440 --> 30:38.720 else will be freaking out, I'll be super calm about. I'll be like, don't worry. I got you. 30:38.800 --> 30:44.880 We got to figure this out together. We find on the reverse side, I might be like, don't worry. 30:44.880 --> 30:48.720 While everyone else is like, the deadline is tomorrow. You should have worried, 30:48.720 --> 30:52.800 didn't, and a week ago. It's pretty standard. And that happened very frequently. 30:52.800 --> 30:57.120 Sure. So what is it? And when you're, when you're having a hard, when we have in our time, 30:57.120 --> 31:00.720 people will be like, you know, what was the, the community? And she said, uh, 31:01.520 --> 31:06.560 I'm sure she was having an episode or whatever. She said calm down. Just calm down. It's like, oh, 31:06.640 --> 31:10.320 yeah, that's, that's going to work. Just tell somebody to calm down when they're just having an episode. 31:10.320 --> 31:15.920 Yeah, that's over. Never, ever, ever. All right. Got a, what's your, what's your favorite website? 31:17.200 --> 31:24.720 Oh, okay. Um, I obviously will not say reddit because that doesn't count. Um, my favorite 31:24.720 --> 31:34.320 website. Oh, tricky tricky tricky tricky. Uh, I can say. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can 31:34.400 --> 31:38.640 just very, very, very, very good. And I wouldn't say that's my favorite website. I probably my favorite website is, um, 31:40.000 --> 31:44.720 uh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I tried to see reddit website. Honestly, I 31:44.720 --> 31:57.200 were, eroid, eroid, eroid, eroid or drugsdata.net. Um, eroid is a website where you can read all sorts of things 31:57.200 --> 32:02.480 about, uh, various in theogenic substances out there. And the craziest thing is that it's been around 32:02.480 --> 32:06.880 since the 90s and most people have no idea what it is, even though it's a charcoal of experience 32:06.880 --> 32:11.280 reports for every single substance, uh, no, it's mankind including caffeine and alcohol. So I don't 32:11.280 --> 32:18.000 think I'm just playing with y'all. Um, I think I probably use this for Google. Like, I'll pick up a, 32:18.000 --> 32:24.080 I'll pick up a, I'll have, my pills are in just the box and they're usually not labeled. So I have 32:24.080 --> 32:27.440 a cardboard box with a bunch of pills in it and I'll be like, oh, the white one with the art on it, 32:27.440 --> 32:30.880 and I'll go like white pill with the art on it. And it's like, oh, well, that's my, you know, 32:30.880 --> 32:35.920 I don't know. So I'll look through there. And I mean, that's currently my favorite website, 32:35.920 --> 32:42.160 but those two probably because it has something that's incredibly illegal and scheduled and 32:42.160 --> 32:47.920 fought against in the war on drugs. Yeah. It's nonetheless very interesting to, um, 32:47.920 --> 32:57.920 consider how how the evolution of, um, what, what, what drugs look like. For example, there's 32:57.920 --> 33:04.240 a somewhere to help us cure drugs, which is all about here. I found this ancient opium in pill 33:04.240 --> 33:12.240 and that, um, with the rummers stuck in my attic that my grand grandfather was prescribed years ago. 33:12.240 --> 33:16.000 And it's probably just as potent as it could be. And they're all like, and they're, 33:16.000 --> 33:20.240 and the best part about if you had that's in my favorite summer that might be it because 33:20.240 --> 33:25.600 there are people who will just be like, yep, that's this obscured drug that was made only once 33:25.600 --> 33:31.360 in the 70s for people who suffered from narcolepsy. I have more epilepsy. I have no idea 33:31.360 --> 33:36.000 how people even do it. It's almost the front is like, uh, there you go. That's the cool thing about 33:36.000 --> 33:41.200 the internet is like, for everything, you like, I just got into my, my son has, I had the wrong 33:41.200 --> 33:46.240 version of Minecraft installed on the switch. It was like the old Minecraft switch edition, which is 33:46.240 --> 33:52.000 not the right one. And just today or yesterday, I installed the, the newer one or whatever, 33:52.080 --> 33:56.000 and I've been trying to get mods on it and trying to get new worlds on it. And it's just like, 33:56.400 --> 34:02.880 somebody built an entire world with like a transit system and like the documentation for the whole 34:02.880 --> 34:08.080 world is like bigger. It's like 200 begs of documentation, like how the transit system works and 34:08.080 --> 34:12.400 like the different sites and it's like a whole flyer. Like they have like a whole thing. Like 34:12.400 --> 34:18.640 these people in their time and how much people can get obsessed with stuff. And yeah, just like yellow, 34:18.640 --> 34:23.520 just, just, whatever, whatever. Take a lot of course you like it. And Linkrod is always a 34:23.520 --> 34:27.760 problem because there was probably my favorite website that I've found was this engineer guy who 34:29.040 --> 34:33.760 had filled his website with all sorts of crazy parties. He had done, but we're talking like the 34:33.760 --> 34:41.360 man built, um, an elevated model rail in his backyard. He, uh, it was like 10 feet tall. He built 34:41.360 --> 34:48.560 himself a loop. He made cars with like 80 bitty horsepower motors to just slowly move around. He iterated 34:48.560 --> 34:54.320 like five different iterations. Yeah. It was wood, tram line in his fucking backyard. Yeah. 34:55.200 --> 34:59.840 He just, and that was just one page. And there was there were probably tens of pages like one 34:59.840 --> 35:03.680 where we, where he grew hydraulic watermelons, which is how I actually found it because I was 35:03.680 --> 35:08.080 doing the same blocks and hydraulic watermelons. Or for example, he built another like 35:08.080 --> 35:13.840 day or a while, right? 20 foot height because he could. Um, the sort of people who are really 35:13.920 --> 35:20.400 driven and I can never find that side again because, uh, the, the algorithms changed or something 35:20.400 --> 35:23.760 changed. You can't find it anymore. There was a really favorite one of my favorite side of the 35:23.760 --> 35:30.880 past was, uh, it was about milk kefir, which is a type of fermentation for milk, um, which you can 35:30.880 --> 35:38.000 make which turns into this kind of yogurty sessions. But there was this one guy, um, kefir, kefir, 35:38.000 --> 35:43.440 milk kefir.org or something like that, who had devoted years and years and years and years to all 35:43.520 --> 35:48.400 the research about kefir and studying it and how to store it and where to store it and what conditions 35:48.400 --> 35:53.680 it's good to store it. And he's actually, he died, I think last year, but he, uh, actually put it 35:53.680 --> 35:58.960 onto a beautiful PDF that has more information than you could possibly imagine about something that 35:58.960 --> 36:04.080 most people get the greens off Amazon for. Like it's a, um, it's a, a used to actually, there was a 36:04.080 --> 36:08.960 time when I would travel with milk kefir so that I can buy some milk in the city I was going to 36:08.960 --> 36:14.720 and basically brew myself dinner, uh, while I was at the clients. Yeah, yeah, every other time you're 36:14.720 --> 36:18.160 like, because I knew you were kind of into the gardening thing and you're like, oh, I grew 36:18.160 --> 36:22.560 well, vegetables and then you're like, yeah, I'm like, maybe I can yogurt my hotel and like, dude, 36:22.560 --> 36:27.440 whoever's going to be in that room, because I just think of like oil, oil, oil, spoiled milk smell, 36:27.440 --> 36:31.760 like, like somebody's going to come into the room and be like, what the hell happened here? Like 36:31.760 --> 36:41.680 they're dead body or, like, so you said K E F I R yogurt. Okay. Yeah, K F I R, um, I don't want to 36:41.680 --> 36:46.080 be that. See, and maybe you can find the PDF and I'll put it in the, the show notes. 36:46.080 --> 36:51.120 Yeah, absolutely. Um, I gave him a donation. I think it's Dominic and the unfitty up trope. 36:52.000 --> 36:56.720 Um, it's a, how big is this? How long is this thing? It's a 40-page book about kefir. He 36:56.720 --> 37:07.920 I can actually send him to Rob. Uh, uh, uh, what's your email actually? F, uh, let me put it 37:07.920 --> 37:18.800 chat. I guess, uh, that's my real email that doesn't go in any kind of form anywhere. 37:18.800 --> 37:23.440 Uh, thank you very much. There you go. The only rule about that email is that doesn't go into 37:23.440 --> 37:29.920 an input box. That's my non-input box email. It's a couple of things. 37:31.120 --> 37:36.320 Everything related to get a kefir and all the craziest, unusual things you can actually use 37:36.320 --> 37:40.960 something like this, which mostly, if we're being really dishonest, boiled down to the fact that 37:40.960 --> 37:48.240 it's unbearably probiotics. So anything that is dangerous in your body that can survive a probiotics, 37:48.320 --> 37:54.000 anything is probably healthy at that point. So, um, yeah, you may think of, uh, when, um, 37:54.000 --> 38:00.400 viced to the thing, a segment on the, uh, the injection of, like, other people's 38:00.800 --> 38:07.360 fecal matter into your, and your, into your stomach, I guess, into your, into your intestines. 38:07.360 --> 38:13.920 So, like, to help, like, jump start your, your whole bio, bio thing. And, like, 38:14.080 --> 38:18.000 the same thing they did for, they did for, like, you know, Chinese drugs. They did episode on 38:18.000 --> 38:22.000 that, where the guys, like, oh, yeah, they gave me a whole bag, like a free sample of this, 38:22.000 --> 38:26.560 of this drug that's like, you know, in the US, would cost you like $300 for this tiny bag that 38:26.560 --> 38:32.880 you gave me for this as like a free sample. But, uh, I don't know if it was one of those things 38:32.880 --> 38:38.240 for, like, he went to a conference somewhere in China or something for drugs, and they gave him 38:38.240 --> 38:43.280 some free sample of something that was like, you know, this amount of drugs is, and they also address, 38:43.280 --> 38:49.280 like, the whole, like, people doing their own hacking of, uh, what's the thing you wear on the, 38:49.280 --> 38:53.360 if you three player, the insulin pump, things, and, like, people are doing that now, 38:53.360 --> 38:58.560 where it's, like, instead of paying stupid amounts for insulin, they're, like, DIY insulin stuff. 38:58.560 --> 39:04.720 But, yeah, it's, uh, it's all, it's all, it's all, it's all, yeah, it's all, yeah, it's all, yeah, 39:04.720 --> 39:10.080 favorite website. We didn't read it. It is all doing the whole, it's all doing dark now. There's a bunch of 39:11.040 --> 39:16.320 all sorts of fun. I, I have this, this, like, festering or, and me festering something like 39:16.320 --> 39:22.400 where, uh, because that implies future fine. Um, it's just a off-hand site idea of seeing if it's 39:22.400 --> 39:27.840 possible to archive, or subreddit, uh, upgrade, basically, not just a federated version, but, like, 39:27.840 --> 39:35.600 a local federated version on the cumulative of Pirate Box since then. Pirate Box is was a, just for 39:35.600 --> 39:42.640 people where we was a now-defunct project to put a, to overwrite, um, a travel router with, uh, 39:42.640 --> 39:49.600 a form of OpenWRT to create a, uh, stand-alone network you can connect to and stream stuff from. 39:50.640 --> 39:56.480 They all used, um, a TP link router called the MR-3020, uh, which is actually still moved, and you 39:56.480 --> 40:04.080 can still buy brand new on Amazon. Uh, God, the thing is, why? And I actually, uh, and, and so, 40:04.160 --> 40:08.880 so, interestingly enough, um, the actual firm, the, the GitHub is still archive somewhere, 40:08.880 --> 40:14.240 but not only that, but the firmware, I think, you, as long as you match up the firmware and the, 40:14.240 --> 40:18.880 GitHub correctly, you can get something that, uh, works just as good as it did, uh, 40:18.880 --> 40:22.880 uh, 95 or 10 years ago. It doesn't have any updates, so I try not to hack it, but like, 40:22.880 --> 40:26.800 and I might, I still have one, I still use it. There was a split off, actually, to this one, 40:26.800 --> 40:31.440 called Library Box, which used a slightly different model router, which, we had a little battery 40:31.440 --> 40:35.280 in and of itself, so it was just, you didn't even have the connector battery. It came in the battery, 40:35.280 --> 40:41.120 so, but my idea is, if it was, it would be possible to, for example, put something like internet on a box, 40:41.680 --> 40:45.600 uh, internet in a box on that. The problem is, and I've already looked at that, um, 40:45.600 --> 40:52.000 internet in a box really relies on like Raspberry Pi's or Intel Nux, um, but I think my next project, 40:52.000 --> 40:57.440 uh, my next techy project, after I figured out how to rewire my whole network will probably be 40:57.440 --> 41:02.240 built in an internet on a box on a local, I'll find myself, yeah, she could use now, 41:02.240 --> 41:06.320 and build that and see what the minimal requirements are that. Are there? And whether or not, 41:06.320 --> 41:15.920 it could be possible to run to re re either, find how to refurbish this project or restart it, 41:15.920 --> 41:23.360 because I still feel that local, um, local networks, uh, local sneaker nets are going to have a 41:23.360 --> 41:28.480 place in the future. It's, uh, like, what if there's a power? Yeah, the average person. 41:28.480 --> 41:32.160 The hilarity thing is going to take over and, you know, we'll just be pets to the, 41:32.960 --> 41:38.960 pets to the robots, right? Like, um, yeah, I had an interest in that space for, um, 41:39.680 --> 41:46.080 remember, I don't know what website it was, but like, you know, if if a post got removed, 41:46.080 --> 41:51.440 chances are it's, like, interesting, right? So like, if he post something on Reddit or somebody else 41:51.520 --> 41:56.080 posting something already, and then all of a sudden it disappears. Everybody wants to see that post, 41:56.080 --> 42:00.800 and like, being able to archive that stuff. I think there's a couple of people that do, 42:01.760 --> 42:07.440 like, archive, uh, archiving videos of Reddit. I don't know if they do the actual text, 42:07.440 --> 42:11.840 but text is so cheap and storage is so cheap now. Text is tiny. I mean, you could easily, 42:12.560 --> 42:17.280 well, you'd have to have like 18 accounts to, like, to a rummage through to like, 42:17.360 --> 42:21.360 pool, you know, all the subreddits of whatever you're doing, but you could easily, you know, 42:21.360 --> 42:26.000 if you can, like, if you had like a 100 Reddit account, so you could probably cash, and I'm sure 42:26.000 --> 42:30.960 there's probably hundreds of people that are caching, like, oh, like, all of Reddit right now, 42:30.960 --> 42:35.600 because it's, it's all text, right? This is tiny amount of hard. And there are people doing that, 42:35.600 --> 42:41.040 but like, they're tools where you can get like the last 1,000, but, um, as of, as of the next 42:41.040 --> 42:46.080 we basically have 10 days before API calls start getting a problem and, like, a little 42:46.160 --> 42:49.440 worth the effect will be of that. I don't, that's the way I personally, that don't think it's weird. 42:50.320 --> 42:54.880 I, yeah, I don't personally believe in the singularity. I personally think that, um, 42:54.880 --> 43:00.640 my, my most controversial views are not on anything related to anything else before these days, 43:00.640 --> 43:05.120 uh, related to the fact that I, uh, I feel that I think that civilization will collapse something 43:05.120 --> 43:10.400 in the next 10 years. Um, a civilization, as we know, due to a mobile poly crisis related to 43:11.360 --> 43:18.240 our peak extractible oil, um, to warn you through other, uh, things like that. So, I think that's 43:18.240 --> 43:24.320 actually, yeah. So, I think that that's where, uh, forums, micro forums. If, if you want to call that, 43:24.320 --> 43:29.360 we'll still have a role. Uh, moving back to forums will be inevitable, like, so, what would 43:29.360 --> 43:37.360 mean, um, like, uh, also it's Cory Doctora wrote a, uh, article, I was, was going to say, like, 43:37.440 --> 43:40.880 widely spread. He basically wrote an article called the, uh, 43:40.880 --> 43:46.240 institution of online platforms, which talks about the cycle that online platforms are going 43:46.240 --> 43:50.960 typically go through where they start out. They get a bunch of users, and then they're wonderful 43:50.960 --> 43:55.040 then, and then they try to monetize or they go public, and then all their, and they go to shit. 43:55.040 --> 44:00.880 Happens, yes, it happens, has happened. It's, it's like, when, when Uber came out, and I started 44:00.880 --> 44:06.080 using it, and like, I was like, um, okay, this is really cool, and this is really nice. Someone's 44:06.160 --> 44:10.240 going to ruin it. And I don't know if it's actually happened yet, but like, you know, that's 44:10.240 --> 44:17.760 what happens with all things that are good. They get, they end up getting the corporation gets a whole 44:17.760 --> 44:22.000 of it, and then they add ads or whatever, and then it gets ruined. It's like anything, even the, 44:22.000 --> 44:28.160 like, like, even the, like, chat GPT stuff is going to get ruined soon, because, like, you'll 44:28.160 --> 44:33.920 have agents. We nice is like, you'll have like, agent from like, Amazon or Google or whatever, 44:33.920 --> 44:37.680 being or God forbid, like, you'll have an agent, and you can tell it's a do stuff, and it'll actually 44:37.680 --> 44:42.560 go do it for you, and do research for you, and then pull back information. And it will be cool for a while, 44:42.560 --> 44:47.200 but I feel like what'll happen inevitably is like, this is going to be like an ad, an eraser to the 44:47.200 --> 44:53.520 bottom for like spam and ads, and it's going to be like 1996 style popups, but with AI, and, you know, 44:53.520 --> 44:58.560 I'm going to be able to tell others between like real particles and fake articles. Yeah, and, and 44:58.640 --> 45:06.160 that's enough. I think that, uh, if you take, take what, what, um, Corey talked about, over there, 45:06.800 --> 45:12.560 talks about, uh, sorry, it was a strange distraction. Um, I think that Reddit will go, 45:13.360 --> 45:19.120 we'll get, and should have had pretty fast, and there, there will still be a desire for a relatively 45:19.120 --> 45:25.680 clean online or offline forum, like a online forum or, or offline version of a forum, which is 45:25.760 --> 45:29.280 basically static version of the forum, but at any time you can implement, or it pulls all the 45:29.280 --> 45:35.360 data, kind of like a GitHub style, basically GitHub hosted forum, um, forum, but not hosted on GitHub. 45:35.360 --> 45:40.960 It just has to be local. I like, uh, and I'm sure someone has come up with this before there has to 45:40.960 --> 45:46.960 be, um, I just don't know, but my, my, I think the killer application killer and application, 45:46.960 --> 45:52.160 yeah, I don't like to use those terms, but, uh, if we have any of the audio podcasts you're doing 45:53.120 --> 46:00.320 Yeah, would be something that, um, is, is powerful enough that, but while powerful, powerful, 46:00.320 --> 46:06.720 but also cheap enough, storage is no longer an issue. Um, USBs, you can get extremely powerful, 46:06.720 --> 46:13.120 and strong USBs really get it easily, and you can, it takes, it's the amount of, we long, 46:13.120 --> 46:20.800 like, you can make yourself a local, like, in a, uh, a local resource for learning or even browsing 46:20.800 --> 46:25.760 so easily, off on Wikipedia is maybe 90 gigabytes. That's nothing, internet and box with all the 46:25.760 --> 46:31.440 data is probably 80 or 90 as well, and that's endless amounts of learning slash useful information, 46:31.440 --> 46:38.320 and I think there's a value, like, I can first see a world where we have less, we don't, we're, we, 46:38.320 --> 46:43.520 like, uh, a world where there is a famine, but people still have phones, like, yeah, the right 46:43.520 --> 46:48.640 point we have everything, but you can imagine a situation where, for example, there's a much more, 46:49.600 --> 46:53.760 a immediate one would be, there's a hurricane, uh, like, let's hear Louisiana, 46:53.760 --> 46:58.400 a hurricane is fun through infrastructure's not coming back, and you have fun all to do. 46:58.400 --> 47:06.720 Yeah, and we had to, like, a water main busted tier and locally, and, um, I want to say, 47:06.720 --> 47:10.320 Sandy Springs or something, and it brought down, like, the whole county or something, 47:10.320 --> 47:15.840 and, you know, I was talking to a coworker and they're like, yeah, I don't come to the office, water, 47:15.920 --> 47:21.360 but Kathy's friend, she works at hospital in the basic of the hospital, it was broken, because 47:21.360 --> 47:26.880 they're air fanitlers, I guess he used water for some reason, or need water, and that was all 47:26.880 --> 47:31.280 broken. And of course, you can't clean anything without water, right? You can't, like, operate on 47:31.280 --> 47:37.680 people without water, like, you need to clean yourself, you need to, like, hydrate people, like, 47:37.680 --> 47:43.520 so, um, they had a big time, and they had to go by, like, you know, a shit ton of bags of ice to, 47:43.520 --> 47:48.320 like, you know, get around, and it was just a day, like, that cool, that caused chaos for the entire 47:48.320 --> 47:53.200 county for just a day, just like, for not having water for, like, for, like, a day, like, 47:53.600 --> 47:57.600 had a lot of money on flipping out and going bananas about, you know, buying toilet paper, right? 47:59.040 --> 48:03.520 Yeah, there's a lot of, there's, uh, we built ourselves such a complex world that when we, 48:03.520 --> 48:06.720 with something breaks, not only does a lot of different things that are affected, 48:06.720 --> 48:11.920 but you have to kind of be like, oh, no, how do we purify water all over again? We've never 48:12.080 --> 48:16.240 had to worry about this, but suddenly we have to, not only purify water, but, like, what if 48:16.240 --> 48:21.840 happens? What are some easy ways to stay clean when the ventilator is done flush? I encountered 48:21.840 --> 48:28.640 this a lot, or which really spurred, uh, issues during the freeze of 2021 Texas. So, um, nice, 48:29.920 --> 48:34.720 that's what I heard from things. So, those are, that was, that was, like, the power period, 48:34.720 --> 48:40.320 grid got to take it out, like, somehow, like, large, sloths of Texas had, like, no, 48:40.480 --> 48:45.280 it was too cold, it was too cold, way too cold, and then, and then we lost fire in the last water, 48:45.280 --> 48:50.240 because the water system is based, we require as power to pump because it's not uphill, 48:50.240 --> 48:56.640 it's all down, it's all flat. So, electricity to pump the water. Yeah, and that's what happens, 48:56.640 --> 49:03.120 like, like, we did some work for, way back and out. I think it's before you, or after you, 49:03.120 --> 49:07.600 I don't know, but we did some work for Coke and, like, something happened during our testing, 49:07.680 --> 49:14.880 and some something broke, and they're like, stop doing your testing, whatever, and, you know, 49:14.880 --> 49:18.880 they, I've never, could figure out what actually caused the problem they would never tell me, 49:18.880 --> 49:22.880 of course, but, like, it's one of those things where, like, when something dies, especially 49:22.880 --> 49:27.200 from, like, a technology perspective, like, some service dies, there's like, there's, there's, 49:27.200 --> 49:32.640 no, nobody knows how any of this crap works. There's, like, one guy that knows how to fix it, 49:32.640 --> 49:36.720 and if he's not paying attention, or he doesn't know what the right hand is doing, like, 49:37.360 --> 49:42.480 stuff breaks, and people have no idea how to fix it, and, like, he's, all these dependencies of, 49:42.480 --> 49:48.960 of stuff, and I don't know how, how, even anything, even, even works. Like, most people do not know 49:48.960 --> 49:53.120 how people, how things work, and that's not an indictment that's just a stick in the fat. So, 49:53.120 --> 50:00.160 but my idea is, if I can have a self-hosted forum, slash information thingy that is easy to install, 50:00.160 --> 50:05.440 slash, even if it's not easy to install, is on very low power hardware in a world where 50:06.400 --> 50:10.880 you have one battery for your phone and everything else, and everything else is running out. 50:10.880 --> 50:18.160 You have need to have, like, like, the scenario where you have power, but you don't have 50:18.160 --> 50:23.760 something else is very valuable, and it's good to have, if little, like, things you can get, 50:23.760 --> 50:28.480 like, my other idea, for information, my other idea is a set of playing cards that, on the back, 50:28.480 --> 50:36.240 has basic information, like, water purification, or surviving heat, or basic things like that, 50:36.240 --> 50:42.080 which most of all, don't have to worry about, because, for example, you can plug into the output 50:42.080 --> 50:47.760 and get electricity whenever, because there's space load or air conditioning, but what if you 50:47.760 --> 50:51.760 don't have that? And the most people in the spur of the moment, they're going to get really 50:51.760 --> 50:57.120 scared, nervous anxious, and have no clue what to do. If you have something with playing cards, 50:57.120 --> 51:00.960 well, I know that sounds pretty stupid, but not into playing out loud, but if you have 51:00.960 --> 51:06.880 something accessible that says, here's some steps you can take right there with common household 51:06.880 --> 51:12.400 items. There are books like this, but they're not. Like, zombie apocalypse books, right, to, like, 51:12.400 --> 51:18.960 I honestly think I've, I've contemplated buying some of those kind of, like, child of the 51:18.960 --> 51:24.480 spokes, but like, I honestly want to have one, just so, like, you know, maybe I'll last, maybe I'll 51:24.560 --> 51:30.160 last a couple of days if everything goes to shit, but I'm, like, the thing is, this isn't 51:30.160 --> 51:34.960 actually time, because I'd like to, like, if the world were to end, like, that would be cool to 51:34.960 --> 51:38.800 be around, like, if the world ended, or if, like, everything went to shit, and we did, like, 51:38.800 --> 51:44.320 the whole reset, but, like, it's, you know, that'd be a good time to, to die, would be, would be, 51:44.320 --> 51:49.600 like, when the actual world ends, like, that'd be exciting. Yeah, I can talk about this for days. 51:49.600 --> 51:56.000 I'm actually, um, I help run, help mod one of the subreddit's devoted to this, uh, the collapse 51:56.000 --> 52:03.280 subreddit. Um, nice. Okay. So I have, yeah, we're had a lot about this. I continue to read a lot 52:03.280 --> 52:06.400 about it. In fact, the most recent thing I was for just reading was the guy who's making a very 52:06.400 --> 52:12.320 good argument that Cole is a very good investment strategy right now, because as companies, um, 52:12.320 --> 52:16.800 realize that, uh, a move to renewables is fundamentally impossible, because we don't have for 52:16.880 --> 52:22.960 both enough green minerals, um, we will substitute everything with Cole, because Cole has to 52:22.960 --> 52:28.960 provide, uh, a base load. Uh, when you shut down nuclear coal, like, in Germany, um, when you 52:28.960 --> 52:34.880 shut down nuclear power plants, Cole takes over. So invest in Cole, but not just a Cole that goes 52:34.880 --> 52:38.320 to the United States, because the United States is now this problem everywhere else does, especially 52:38.320 --> 52:44.720 developing worlds, some best in, like, uh, his three to five years thesis is investing plants that 52:44.800 --> 52:50.080 export Cole, uh, from like South Africa or Indonesia that's specifically thermal coal, which is used 52:50.080 --> 52:55.760 for power generation. So I thought the whole, I thought the whole, like, cold fusion thing is 52:55.760 --> 52:59.840 all, like, figure it all, it's half figured out, right? Like, that aren't we, did not the thing 52:59.840 --> 53:06.640 a little say this, right? Fusion is good for power, but, um, now you need to, uh, convert an entire 53:06.640 --> 53:13.280 power distribution infrastructure to use fusion, good luck. Apparently, for whatever you get by that, 53:13.360 --> 53:22.400 like, our entire power infrastructure is built on, um, on delivering electricity and providing 53:22.400 --> 53:28.560 all electricity, stable electricity, but using oil and natural gas and coal, and yeah, I need a 53:28.560 --> 53:33.680 little bit of solar and wind power, as opposed to. So let's say fusion is figured out now, you 53:33.680 --> 53:40.880 have to build very tricky. Yeah. No, fusion is much more detailed. It's not retrofit. You like, 53:40.960 --> 53:44.800 you have to, uh, the easiest way, if you want to do that, whether you have to create, like, 53:44.800 --> 53:50.880 portable fusion packs, kind of like those busy, busy, home, nuclear, efficient, or, yeah, I'll take 53:50.880 --> 53:55.200 the first talk about, except it would have to be fusion. So you have to have the massive react 53:55.200 --> 54:00.320 magnets, essentially, everywhere there is a power station, and there are tens of thousands of those 54:00.320 --> 54:05.920 across the country. So it would have to be very fast in a way that has never happened before. 54:05.920 --> 54:10.640 I don't have my own stuff for that. I would love to, but that also requires a lot of fuel, 54:10.720 --> 54:15.280 an oil, and already, guys, to actually deliver, because we don't eat energy. These 54:15.280 --> 54:21.040 old powers are trucks that drive our trains, our trucks, and the rest of the delivery stuff. 54:21.040 --> 54:27.120 So you need enough to deal with that. It's a problem that, um, I can, again, talk about for days, 54:27.120 --> 54:31.680 because it's really, really complicated, and you can be all sorts of, uh, well, actually read it 54:31.680 --> 54:36.880 on this. Yeah. Well, you can't read it, because, you know, read it's all broken right now, so, you know, 54:37.520 --> 54:43.600 all of them. Friends, all sounds just gone dark. Yeah, complicated. So yeah, my, my, and of course, 54:43.600 --> 54:50.160 my, the primary issue with me is because I have so much to say about, um, um, the collapse of civilization, 54:50.160 --> 54:54.560 it makes potential employers a little nervous when they start talking about how, uh, they might 54:54.560 --> 54:59.280 not that they really should think about this, and they might not have a, uh, much about good 54:59.280 --> 55:04.080 stable environment to work in in the next five to 10 years, which is a reasonable assumption. Yeah, 55:04.080 --> 55:10.400 I mean, I feel within five years, if, if not less, the 10 years, all the, all the stuff, 55:10.400 --> 55:17.520 like an entry-level sock is all going to be, I do it. Thank you. Yeah. All that stuff. Um, 55:17.520 --> 55:22.560 I'm using it for grammar check right now, but I used it. Um, I was proud of myself. I used the 55:22.560 --> 55:30.160 jet GPT to, like, tell me about, um, a character in the Lord of the Rings TV series without 55:30.240 --> 55:35.200 spoiling the story. So I said, tell me about this character without telling me the names of other 55:35.200 --> 55:39.760 characters or spoiling the story. So it was able to tell me, it was like, the crab man or something, 55:40.560 --> 55:44.560 um, and like, I didn't really understand it. And I'm like, well, how can I, you know, when you google, 55:44.560 --> 55:48.640 my wife does it all the time, she'll google, like, crab man, and then she gets some spoiler. 55:48.640 --> 55:53.920 She'll read some kind of spoiler. Um, but yeah, I don't, I don't know enough to do the large 55:54.000 --> 55:58.640 thing with model stuff. I just run the tools, um, like I said, I made a, I made like a local, 55:59.520 --> 56:05.120 a local model of myself, my wife, where I could like make myself look like a, you know, Santa Claus or whatever, 56:05.120 --> 56:09.600 um, which is this fun stuff, but I don't have enough gear. Yeah. I think of smarts to do the 56:09.600 --> 56:14.560 like, my own large language models. I would really like to replace, like, take all of my emails 56:14.560 --> 56:20.080 and all of my communications from work and like create my own, like, large language model. And then 56:20.080 --> 56:27.840 I have a voice. You can, you know, there's a file myself, like, to recall a, a model for my voice. 56:28.560 --> 56:35.040 And so the idea would be, is if I had a fast enough GPU, I could have my AI joining a meeting and 56:35.040 --> 56:40.400 see what happens to see if it could, like, you know, like, you can't do that sound enough, like, 56:40.400 --> 56:45.280 me and like respond enough, like, to me to like replace myself with AI, which would be that's 56:45.600 --> 56:51.920 my goal of it. But there are, there is actually a separate, um, I think the llama, llama, 56:51.920 --> 56:57.360 separated parts about there is a post I can send you to pick up and send up to, um, which talks 56:57.360 --> 57:03.040 about the setting up, uh, all like downloading the fully weighted models, two hundred eighty 57:03.040 --> 57:07.440 people would say at a time and just running it all at home. Yeah. So chat to be without the filters. 57:08.000 --> 57:12.080 Yeah. It's like, I looked at, well, I was talking to somebody that knows actually and has their own 57:12.080 --> 57:16.320 set up, like half, half, whatever. It's like, I don't know, like, 30 grand to do, like some of the 57:16.320 --> 57:22.400 even reason to believe doable large language model stuff locally. I don't know, like, oh, that sucks. 57:22.960 --> 57:27.360 Because, you know, all the, all the, all the, all the compliance guys are going bananas because 57:27.360 --> 57:31.680 people are copy and impatient shit and putting it on chat, CBT and like, all the, you know, 57:31.680 --> 57:37.280 deep, you know, the, the, the GRC people are just going insane. I'm like, oh, yeah. And I, 57:38.160 --> 57:45.520 sent a, a sent a thing to our guys, um, uh, to our GRC guy work and there's like 6,000, 6,800 people 57:45.520 --> 57:50.400 using chat GPT or something crazy. Um, it's, it's insane. Oh, I lost you. 57:52.400 --> 57:59.680 I think I lost them. Oh, I lost you. Uh, uh, 58:00.320 --> 58:07.680 I lost you there. Sorry about that. I, uh, I accidentally, um, I actually closed 58:07.680 --> 58:11.600 the wrong tab. Well, yeah. I got to be, I got to be respectful of time. I, I had to go to 58:12.240 --> 58:17.360 Boy Scouts meeting of all things, um, take to take the kid with me and, but, uh, we'll definitely 58:17.360 --> 58:24.240 sync up on the, uh, on the, uh, doom and gloom of that is, you know, robots taking over the world and, 58:24.400 --> 58:29.440 yes, because I, I generally don't treat as gloom. I just, I just, mostly I wish that people would 58:29.440 --> 58:35.360 get on the same page as me and, um, make some changes, but, uh, yes, when it comes to entry-level 58:35.360 --> 58:40.320 sock jobs, there's a lot of doom and gloom at the entry level anything is, is, uh, yep. 58:41.600 --> 58:47.520 I, I consider, I mean, the stuff I do is kind of weird, but like, just entry-level sock stuff that, 58:47.520 --> 58:52.880 that's, kind of go, bye-bye, like real quick, anything. And it like, an all-your-tech support, 58:52.960 --> 58:56.800 all that stuff is going to go by by, it's going to get worse before it gets better, 58:56.800 --> 59:01.520 it's, it's going to be awful. Um, because everybody's going to be the first person to implement 59:01.520 --> 59:05.520 and make a dime off of it, and it's all going to be hot garbage for like 10 years, five years. 59:06.160 --> 59:10.960 But yeah, yeah, um, but I think we've got through most questions, um, we'll definitely 59:10.960 --> 59:17.520 sync back up about the, uh, the, the future stuff, um, that would be fun and we could do some cool 59:17.600 --> 59:21.920 hacker stories. If you got, I'm sure you got a couple of them. Um, but I've always, uh, 59:21.920 --> 59:27.920 did up some more somewhere. Yeah, yeah, man. Um, cool. Okay, cool. Well, I'm talking to you, 59:27.920 --> 59:33.920 and um, I'll, uh, probably the next couple of weeks or so I'll hack this up and then send it to you 59:33.920 --> 59:40.480 so you can listen to it or whatever. And then if you are comfortable, then then I'll put it up. 59:40.480 --> 59:47.280 So that's how the idea goes. If I don't lose it. Yeah, okay. Cool. All right. All right. 59:47.280 --> 59:51.360 I'll talk to you later. Good luck. Yeah. Looking around. Thank you. What do I do with the fiance stuff, too? 59:51.360 --> 59:54.560 Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. 01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:12.320 You have been listening to hacker public radio as hacker public radio does work. Today's show was 01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:18.320 contributed by a HBR this night like yourself. If you ever thought of recording podcast, 01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:25.920 click on our contributally to find out how easy it means. Hosting for HBR has been kindly provided 01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:33.120 by an onsthost.com. The internet archive and our synced.net. On the satellite stages, 01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:40.160 today's show is released on our creative comments, attribution for.0 international license.